I really enjoyed your response. It was refreshing to have a christian take on what I saw as a big flaw head on, as well as in what I would consider a completely intellectually honest way.

Having said that, I still remain unconvinced that:
1.) The current outcome is the “best of all possible outcomes” — especially if we are to posit an omnipotent God. (This really is neither here nor there and your explanation stands as a possibility)

2.) If this IS in fact the best possible outcome (and I don’t mean to say that you said so with any degree of certainty), that a free will universe is the most morally correct action for an all loving God. (Again neither here nor there, just my opinion.)

I would like to just say again I really appreciate you taking the time to help me with some of the objections that could be raised to the issues I presented. This has been a really helpful dialogue for me. I feel like I definitely have some new things to think about, which is exactly what I was looking for.

My personal feeling is that God has not done anything to directly force any person’s will (free choice). I would say the free will choices were influenced (but not forced) by the historical and situational circumstances into which people were born, but I believe God has seen to it that, no matter how unfortunate a person’s circumstances, they at least have a fair shot at choosing for good or for evil at some point in their lives. So in short, each person it still responsible for their moral choices, and thus their destiny. Those with less privileges are judged by God less exactingly, according to what could reasonably be expected of them.

But, winding the clock back, it is possible that the original setup of things predisposed people to outcomes that might have been different with a different original setup. But, considering God is not only able to see the future, but all-wise as well, it could also be argued that the current outcome is the “best of all possible outcomes”, given a set of priorities that God seems to have, which include letting humans live with their choices. In other words, it could be that in a truly free-will universe, it is utterly impossible to not have anyone ever make wrong choices, and the current universe with its bad choices is the best that could be achieved without excessive interference on God’s part.

In a certain sense, I believe God does share in the “blame” for the current evils in the world, if for no other reason than that He decided to create beings with free will in the first place. But I also believe from God’s perspective this is not a “fault” at all, but an essential part of the price of having a universe with free-will beings in it.

Thanks for the quick response. You have, for the most part, summed up my comment correctly. The only part I take issue with is when you said the following:

“Inevitable, not because He rigged the decisions or forced them, but they were inevitable because they were what would happen.”

I never actually said that he didn’t rig the decisions or force them. That’s a big part of my objection. I have a hard time finding an excuse for him on that very issue. It would seem as though God, as the creator of all things, started a chain of events with full knowledge of the outcome. How can we place the culpability anywhere but on his shoulders?

FYI, I am an atheist, however, I only ask because I feel as though there is something I am missing here and that my conclusion is somehow flawed. Any insights you have would be very helpful.

“Where people become confused is when they wonder, If God sees this outcome, then doesn’t that prove I cannot choose the other outcome?”

This is as far as you have chosen to take this line of reasoning, insofar as I can tell. The real problem is not simply that God has foreknowledge of what you will choose, but that he actually created you while simultaneously possessing complete foreknowledge of the decision and the outcome.

It seems as though our free will is free will in name only. The situation we have here is one in which God manifested a certain set of scenarios; he in essence was the cause of each one of these. The decision was made at the beginning of time, with no chance of variation.

I would agree with you that God’s foreknowledge exerts no force or pressure on the will of mankind, however, his creation ex nihilo did. When you look at this coupled with his apparent foreknowledge, is when the problem arises.

Thanks
Tania